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Read Me Instructions and FAQ Locked Topic 0 M. Randall Forum Etiquette This NFH Community Forum (Ask the Community) is a friendly place for discourse about the recreation residence program.  Our forum is a place to ask questions, provide information, and exchange ideas in a spirit of friendship. We know there will be disagreements on certain topics, but we ask that you disagree respectfully so that this forum remains a place where camaraderie between cabin owners is first and foremost. Quick Start Sign in to the NFH Website Click on the Ask the Community link on the home page. Equivalently click on menu option Resources → Ask the Community or Get Involved → Ask the Community. View recent topics posts and replies or use the search for a topic of interest Click New Topic to create a new post. When positioned on an existing topic, click Quick Reply (or alternatively Full Editor) to join the conversation on that topic.   Frequently Asked Questions How do I sign-in to the NFH Website? Only NFH members may sign in on the NFH website. Use the menu pick in the upper right or the box on the left rail of the home page.   There is a Forgot Your Password button and a Need Help button at the bottom of the left rail for more assistance. How do I pose a topic? Click on above the grid of existing topics. On the Subject line be detailed enough for someone searching to anticipate the content. For example ‘Permit language regarding restricted access’ is much more informative than ‘Permit language’ How do I add a Reply? Below each post is a Quick Reply text box. Remember to click on thebutton. What is the difference between Quick Reply and Reply Using Full Editor? The Quick Reply only allows plain text. The Full Editor has a Subject text, Attach Video field, and full font and style attributes along with an Insert tab for tables and links. Below the text area, there is a drag-n-drop or upload area for attaching files and images. Warning: If you start with the Quick Reply and decide to switch to the Advanced Editor, text already entered is lost so do a copy of the Quick Reply text to then paste it in the Full Editor box. How do I return to the main Community Forum page? After viewing a Topic post or replies, click on ‘General Questions/Discussion’ in the Forum Index bar below the NFH website menu bar.   How can I “subscribe” to the NFH Community Forum? Members can “subscribe” to the entire Ask the Community Forum, or an individual Topic using the Forum Actions at the top of the Forum (or Topic).  There are two types of notice subscriptions. Subscribe to either or both.     1)      Instant Update:  Member receives an email every time a new Topic or Reply is made to the Forum (or Topic).   2)      Digest:  Member receives a weekly email which provides a list new Topics/Replies for that Forum entered since the last distribution of the Digest.   Is the information accurate? The NFH Community Forum is provided to members as a medium to share knowledge and experience. NFH staff and designated volunteer subject matter experts will review the forum and clarify and elaborate content for accuracy using an Editor’s Note. Who can access the NFH Community Forum? All visitors to the NFH website can see the General Questions/Discussion Community Forum page. Only members who have signed in to the site can post. If I post or reply how am I identified online? You are identified with your profile picture and your first initial and last name. There is no visibility to other profile information. You may choose not to set a profile picture and some members use a picture of their cabin. Why do Topics have different icons? Announcements  always sort to the top of the posts, are created by a moderator and locked so only moderators can reply. This Read Me Guide is an example of an Announcement. Sticky always sort immediately below any Announcements and above any regular topics. Regular Topics display below any Announcements and Sticky and can be sorted by most recent activity date. Scroll down to see all the posts or click on the next and previous page arrows. What should not be a Topic on the NFH Community Forum? If you have a personal matter regarding your membership or specifics about your cabin that you do not want to share with the cabin community then use the Help or Contact Us.
by M. Randall
Friday, May 3, 2019
Invasive aquatic Eurasian milfoil 2 M. Chinn P.S. I will add only that in my limited research, the best approach appears to be lots of volunteer hours and lots of manual pulling. It has the greatest impact. Then, there are some species that will eat it, and as long as they are not able to reproduce, these other fish or whathaveyou that may eat the plant can be contained. Thanks for your question -Sharon Leach, NFH Executive Director
by S. Leach
Tuesday, December 10, 2019
Propane Fridge Recommendations 1 A. Froker Hoping others have suggestions. If I run across any recommendations, I'll let you know.
by S. Leach
Monday, December 2, 2019
Are maps of tracts available? 3 J. Mcloskey I'll echo Dave's suggestion above that you should obtain your tract map from the Forest Service and keep with your cabin records. Every tract was surveyed by the USFS and the lots authorized for the recreation residence program, even though permits may not have been issued for every lot to build on. It's important to understand where the undeveloped lots are in case there's ever a need to invoke the "in-lieu" lot provision of your permit. My experience is some counties have incorporated these maps into the county's GIS system for property tax or emergency service purposes, but many have not.  The USFS is the official source of the tract maps.  The example above is very typical of what a USFS tract map looks like.  Many have not been updated since the original survey.....80+ years ago!
by D. Gann
Sunday, November 24, 2019
no trespassing sign 4 R. Paradies To add to the dialog above, the Forest Service frowns upon any signage which attempts to restrict general public access to National Forest lands, including our lots.  Since the cabin is your private property, you can post a sign identifying your cabin as "private property" and you may also be allowed to say something like "no public access allowed" or "keep off" or "no trespassing" if the sign is clear that it applies to your private improvements, but not the lot.
by D. Gann
Sunday, November 24, 2019
Camping by the public on our lots 7 J. Primrose Responding to a couple of posts above.  Regarding Ian's question above, to my knowledge there is no national or regional policy regarding the specific distance disperse camping is allowed from a developed site. Each Forest has a certain amount of leeway to establish guidelines or rules for such things. I've seen documents or flyers generated by different Forests similar to the one posted by Desiree above to inform the general public regarding acceptable practices for dispersed camping.  Responding to D. Giebelhausen's post, if the bridge is private property of the cabin owners, I believe you could place a "private property" sign on the bridge, but not so sure you could place a "no trespassing" sign.  As a general rule, the Forest Service frowns upon signs which appear to restrict access to forest lands by the general public. Lockable gates are generally authorized to reduce automoble traffic for security purposes, which is probably the best way to prevent or reduce traffic on your bridge, but doesn't prevent the general public from walking across the bridge.
by D. Gann
Sunday, November 24, 2019
Library 2 W. Schrader The USFS also has an online library with thousands of digital archives. Not sure if you will find what you’re looking for, but here’s the link -
by D. Condit
Tuesday, November 19, 2019
Road Maintenance Agreements with the FS 3 T. Kish Follow-up to previous mid-point in process....We won't hear from FS permit administrator and road engineer about their policy decision till mid-December, about a month out.
by C. Breed
Tuesday, November 19, 2019
Cabin Incidental Rental 2 M. Norder Yes it does, thanks for the information.
by M. Norder
Thursday, October 10, 2019
Why form a local tract association? 6 K. Shea Thanks so much for sending examples. This will help us immensely!
by M. Norder
Monday, September 16, 2019
Tax on Sale of cabin 2 T. Blaesing Thanks so much. This is very helpful
by T. Blaesing
Sunday, September 15, 2019
How to get a Sign identifying our Tract 3 L. Eckman By all means, we encourage sharing information from this website with other cabin owners.
by D. Gann
Saturday, August 10, 2019
Security Gate - maintenance and access 6 C. Randall My cabin is in Oregon. We also have security gates and have been told that the roads are our responsibility for the same reason noted above. We have not had major issues with the roads but keep a gravel pile within the tract and ask cabin owners to fill pot holes as they occur. Our winters are relatively mild, with snow blocking access to all but high-clearance, 4-wheel drive vehicles, only a few times since I've owned my cabin. I find it hard enough to get the Forest Service to maintain the main access road (fill pot holes/paint lines), which serves our cabin tract, three Forest Service campgrounds, and another special-uses facility, never mind the roads within the tract.
by R. Dwyer
Tuesday, July 16, 2019
Shared Water Systems with Forest Service - Need Info 1 D. La Maggiore On the Cleveland NF we have asked the FS if we could connect the small 7-cabin Shrine Tract to the USFS water system in the adjacent Laguna Campground . Despite given an example of a shared water system in the Inyo NF, the proposal was rejected by the District Ranger because the Laguna water system was designed for sharing and the administrative burden to administer the water service.To the DR's credit, he is entertaining an alternative proposal to allow the MLIA cabin tract water system organization to share a new waterline trench in the upcoming campground renovation project and allow the MLIA to run a pipeline from the nearby Laguna Tract to the Shrine Tract.
by F. Kalinoski
Tuesday, July 16, 2019
non-renewal of permits 2 R. Dwyer Thanks Sharon. I’ll pass this on.
by R. Dwyer
Monday, July 15, 2019
Cabin Tract Self Inspections - Has FS asked anyone else to do this? 3 D. La Maggiore Apart from Roy's great example and the questionnaire mentioned by Doug, I don't currently know of other tracts or cabin groups that perform self-inspections. But the topic has been raised at NFH. Particularly with regard to historic cabins. Where the USFS has not been able to complete historic assessments in some forests, local tract associations have banded as a community and hired an approved outside historic consultant. That's a step toward self-management. When Mike Kaczor, former lead in the Heritage Department of the USFS Washington Office, was on our NFH Board, we talked about whether some historic districts might be able to self-manage through the local tract association. While having this authority/responsibility might put pressure on your association and thus suggest a bit more in the way of incorporation and insurance coverage, there are advantages to developing this kind of public-private partnership in the right circumstances. If and when we speak with further leaders of cabin associations who have been given this opportunity, we'll ask them more about their self-management experiences. Glad to hear it was enjoyable and informative for Roy's tract.  - Sharon Leach, NFH Executive Director
by S. Leach
Thursday, July 11, 2019
Permit Limitations on Cabin Square Footage 4 S. Karr The square footage limits and how they are to be measured is set in the Special Uses Handbook Supplement for those regions that have adopted Supplements -- presently that includes Regions 4, 5 and 6, which are the Intermountain, Pacific Southwest and Pacific Northwest Regions, respectively. These Supplements provide important detail regarding the building, maintenance and use of Recreation Residence Cabins. The R5 Supplement [Supplement No. 2709.11-2016-2] establishes a maximum floor space of 1,400 square foot, which includes ""...both floors of a two story residence (excluding loft which is defined as an unpartitioned open space under a roof) and, where they already exist, authorized guest cabins and garages with living space."  The R6 Supplement [2709.11-2012-1] establishes a maximum size for the dwelling of 1,200 square feet measured on the outside of the foundation, plus a loft. The loft size shall not be included in the total square footage and should be two-thirds or less of the ground floor square footage. As has been noted by other respondents, Forests can set smaller square footage limits, but not larger than their regional regulations.
by R. Glauthier
Monday, July 1, 2019
Historic District - pros and cons 1 M. Randall I think it's wonderful that you are considering becoming an historic "district" under the National Register of Historic Places designation. A few point to keep in mind: Not all the cabins in the tract or vicinity need to be included. Some may opt out, and that is fine. There is always strength in numbers when dealing with the Forest Service or government agencies, such as the county. And yes such a designation would inhibit the FS from removing or reducing structures. I strongly urge you to contact your State Historical Preservation Office (SHPO) for advice on how to proceed and ask them to recommend a consultant with experience in Historic districts for you to work with..
by J. Van Dyk
Tuesday, May 21, 2019
Cleveland National Forest Management Plan link 3 T. Bier This is great - thanks for making it sticky! - Sharon Leach
by S. Leach
Monday, May 20, 2019
Sheds 1 T. Bier Cabin construction guidelines vary by USFS Region. In the Pacific NW Region (6) where my cabin is located, one storage/woodshed is allowed up to 130 sq ft. In Region 5, the size appears to be limited to 40 sq ft. with possibly a little wiggle room at the discretion of the authorized officer. The following are the Pacific SW Region (5) guidelines for a shed: "Outbuildings. Before authorizing outbuildings, the authorized officer shall consider the following guidelines: Separate structures such as storage sheds, generators, pump houses, and outhouses may be authorized if they cannot be logically incorporated into the main residence. Separate structures shall not exceed a combined total of 40 square feet. The authorized officer has discretion to make limited exceptions if there are no resource concerns, the improvements or structures cannot be logically incorporated into the main structure and the additional improvement, structure, or square footage is necessary to the function of the cabin. The authorized officer should document the rationale used to support the exception. All separate structures must be constructed of materials and colors to blend with the cabin and other outbuildings."
by D. Gann
Saturday, May 18, 2019