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Read Me Instructions and FAQ Locked Topic 0 M. Randall Forum Etiquette This NFH Community Forum (Ask the Community) is a friendly place for discourse about the recreation residence program.  Our forum is a place to ask questions, provide information, and exchange ideas in a spirit of friendship. We know there will be disagreements on certain topics, but we ask that you disagree respectfully so that this forum remains a place where camaraderie between cabin owners is first and foremost. Quick Start Sign in to the NFH Website Click on the Ask the Community link on the home page. Equivalently click on menu option Resources → Ask the Community or Get Involved → Ask the Community. View recent topics posts and replies or use the search for a topic of interest Click New Topic to create a new post. When positioned on an existing topic, click Quick Reply (or alternatively Full Editor) to join the conversation on that topic.   Frequently Asked Questions How do I sign-in to the NFH Website? Only NFH members may sign in on the NFH website. Use the menu pick in the upper right or the box on the left rail of the home page.   There is a Forgot Your Password button and a Need Help button at the bottom of the left rail for more assistance. How do I pose a topic? Click on above the grid of existing topics. On the Subject line be detailed enough for someone searching to anticipate the content. For example ‘Permit language regarding restricted access’ is much more informative than ‘Permit language’ How do I add a Reply? Below each post is a Quick Reply text box. Remember to click on thebutton. What is the difference between Quick Reply and Reply Using Full Editor? The Quick Reply only allows plain text. The Full Editor has a Subject text, Attach Video field, and full font and style attributes along with an Insert tab for tables and links. Below the text area, there is a drag-n-drop or upload area for attaching files and images. Warning: If you start with the Quick Reply and decide to switch to the Advanced Editor, text already entered is lost so do a copy of the Quick Reply text to then paste it in the Full Editor box. How do I return to the main Community Forum page? After viewing a Topic post or replies, click on ‘General Questions/Discussion’ in the Forum Index bar below the NFH website menu bar.   How can I “subscribe” to the NFH Community Forum? Members can “subscribe” to the entire Ask the Community Forum, or an individual Topic using the Forum Actions at the top of the Forum (or Topic).  There are two types of notice subscriptions. Subscribe to either or both.     1)      Instant Update:  Member receives an email every time a new Topic or Reply is made to the Forum (or Topic).   2)      Digest:  Member receives a weekly email which provides a list new Topics/Replies for that Forum entered since the last distribution of the Digest.   Is the information accurate? The NFH Community Forum is provided to members as a medium to share knowledge and experience. NFH staff and designated volunteer subject matter experts will review the forum and clarify and elaborate content for accuracy using an Editor’s Note. Who can access the NFH Community Forum? All visitors to the NFH website can see the General Questions/Discussion Community Forum page. Only members who have signed in to the site can post. If I post or reply how am I identified online? You are identified with your profile picture and your first initial and last name. There is no visibility to other profile information. You may choose not to set a profile picture and some members use a picture of their cabin. Why do Topics have different icons? Announcements  always sort to the top of the posts, are created by a moderator and locked so only moderators can reply. This Read Me Guide is an example of an Announcement. Sticky always sort immediately below any Announcements and above any regular topics. Regular Topics display below any Announcements and Sticky and can be sorted by most recent activity date. Scroll down to see all the posts or click on the next and previous page arrows. What should not be a Topic on the NFH Community Forum? If you have a personal matter regarding your membership or specifics about your cabin that you do not want to share with the cabin community then use the Help or Contact Us.
by M. Randall
Friday, May 3, 2019
Road Maintenance Agreements with the FS 4 T. Kish We finally have an answer. The Forest Service won't require anyone to contribute to road maintenance, because 6 years ago we 12 cabin-owners decided NOT to form a legal association. It seemed too threatening a project. As a result, the road agreement contract was signed by one representative cabin-owner only, not the legal representative of an association. The association would have given the FS the teeth to compel permittees to cooperate financially, the FS road engineer tells us.Next step: the FS says funding for road crews is dwindling and we should anticipate paying for materials and for labor to apply materials in the near future. We're going to revisit whether we want to form an association. And if we stay informal, at least we'll adopt a policy of the treasurer notifying all 12 owners of who has paid and who has failed to pay into annual assessments.
by C. Breed
Thursday, February 6, 2020
Propane Fridge Recommendations 5 A. Froker About five years ago our vintage propane fridge gave up the ghost. Couldn't find anyone willing to work on it. I attempted to clean out the heat exchangers and thought I was vacuuming a mouse nest when I realized it was asbestos. Sigh... That's when we purchased a new Crystal Cold unit from Gas Fridge Depot. We added a high altitude orifice as we are at 9,500ft and have been very happy with it's performance. The one nit I have is the inside light, powered by two D cell batteries, is not sufficient. I found a light socket converter and put in a small watt LED bulb. The D cell batteries did not have enough voltage to power the LED light, so I replaced the D batteries with two 9V batteries in series. The new setup is much brighter inside. Happy hunting!Edit: Looking at the website it appears they now come with an LED interior light, so it appears this is fixed on the newer units.
by M. Norder
Wednesday, January 29, 2020
Water System permit renewal - Delays even by USFS standards! 2 D. Vangsness Dear Dave,I encourage you to contact the next level up in your Forest directly. A polite email to the next authority above the person you're currently dealing with, followed up by a call in a day or so, might see some responsiveness. Who is the cc'd contact you mention in your note and what position does she have? Reach out directly to your Ranger, or if you've tried that already, go right up to the Forest Supervisor level to get a response. Feel free to cc me at NFH: sleach@nationalforesthomeowners.org. I recently heard from a member in the Lassen NF who kept trying to get someone to respond to his concerns - it involved a letter from the USFS to him and yet nobody was being responsive to his letters in response. I advised him to raise it up to the next level. He raised it up to the Ranger and the Ranger got in touch right away. It doesn't always go that way, but it can budge something that is otherwise stalled. This is the best way to either appeal a decision or to get some attention, by going up the chain. The kind of hand-off several times that you described is also sufficient reason to get in touch with a higher authority to get the water permit resolved.Which district is your tract located in? I can get a name and contact information for you if you let me know your district. Hopefully you will see results as the NFH member in Lassen experienced. If, however, you get a response that is in any way troubling or revises your existing water use, please get in touch with NFH again.Thanks for reaching out,Sharon Leach, NFH Executive Director
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Friday, January 24, 2020
Trust Transfer of Permit Upon Death of Trustees 4 B. Potter Because cabin trusts are typically part of an overall estate planning process by a cabin owner, reasons for placing a cabin in a trust will vary by personal circumstances.  That said, a common reason for placing a cabin in a trust is to bypass the probate process when a cabin owner passes away.  Because probate varies by state law, owners from some states (where probate is more complex or expensive) are more motivated than those in other states to bypass probate. Another common reason for using a trust as an ownership entity is when a cabin is owned by multiple parties to define the rights and responsibilities of the parties. I'll also mention the USFS is not entirely consistent regarding their review and acceptance of cabin trust terms, thus the need to discuss your specific cabin trust terms with the attorney who created it. For more information, please reference the Cabin Trusts / Multi-Ownership page under the Resources menu.
by D. Gann
Sunday, January 19, 2020
Keeping the peace while scheduling and calendaring cabin times 1 S. Browning Our cabin is jointly owned by 2 families and each of the owners have grown children.  It is located near Lake Tahoe so there's lots of desire for family and friends to use the cabin. We set up a Google account for our cabin and have a Google website which includes photos of our cabin, points of interest, and a calendar that all can view. Editing rights for the calendar are limited to my cabin partner and I so kids or friends who want to use the calendar have to contact one of us to book dates at our cabin. Our general policy is that each of the owners should not book more than 2 weekends a month or 2 weeks a month in the busy season. This has worked really well and should work in your situation but it's important to establish a set of rules/guidelines such as opening/closing procedures, cleaning procedures, food left at cabin, responsibilities for maintenance and/or repair (if that's part of  your children's responsibilities). If anyone elects to not use the cabin when booked, then those reserved dates are removed and are open for the rest of the group to use.  Oftentimes, we do adjust dates or swap dates but the calendar is the main tool for keeping it all straight. Here is the link to our site so you can see for yourself.  https://sites.google.com/site/karokcabin/home If you'd like to discuss, feel free to contact me at 707 974 5797 Jay Tripathi Spring Creek Tract, CA  
by J. Tripathi
Tuesday, January 14, 2020
Roof Replacement 3 E. McGrew Dear E,Our Cabin's (White River National Forest / Rio Blanco) roof was replaced last year. We worked closely with the FS District Office to make sure the color was appropriate, which was a big checkmark, and engineering wise the roof would withstand snow loads, etc. Metal Sales in Longmont (which is a manufacturing and sales site) was very helpful. Please let me know if I can give you any additional info on my experience ! Steven Reed
by S. Reed
Wednesday, January 8, 2020
Cabin Appearance, etc. 1 R. Maycock Anyone involved in owning a cabin in the Recreation Residence program may be a member of National Forest Homeowners (NFH). While we don't require you to do anything in particular to your cabin, we encourage good citizenship and compliance with the Forest Service rules for owning a cabin. Membership can help permit holders understand their permits and the Forest Service, which inevitably leads to members being stronger permit-holders, as well as more educated in their rights.Thanks!Sharon Leach, NFH Executive Director
by S. Leach
Monday, December 30, 2019
NFH Support with Ranger Disagreements 1 R. Maycock Dear Richard,You can count on NFH to assist with information, contacts and other guidance when you run into problems. Typically, we want to empower our members with factual information to use in cases where a local ranger interprets the rules inconsistently and not in alignment with the special use permit and other forest rules. If the situation affects cabin owners more generally, we may step in and discuss with forest-level, regional or Washington Office contacts in the Forest Service.At times, a local dispute may be so challenging that NFH would make a call to the ranger or forest supervisor, but we really feel strongly that empowering each permit holder and local tract association builds strength and relationship locally, which helps the entire program and permit-holders. If you are currently having trouble, let us know and maybe we can assist.All the Best,Sharon Leach, NFH Executive Director
by S. Leach
Monday, December 30, 2019
Invasive aquatic Eurasian milfoil 2 M. Chinn P.S. I will add only that in my limited research, the best approach appears to be lots of volunteer hours and lots of manual pulling. It has the greatest impact. Then, there are some species that will eat it, and as long as they are not able to reproduce, these other fish or whathaveyou that may eat the plant can be contained. Thanks for your question -Sharon Leach, NFH Executive Director
by S. Leach
Tuesday, December 10, 2019
Are maps of tracts available? 3 J. Mcloskey I'll echo Dave's suggestion above that you should obtain your tract map from the Forest Service and keep with your cabin records. Every tract was surveyed by the USFS and the lots authorized for the recreation residence program, even though permits may not have been issued for every lot to build on. It's important to understand where the undeveloped lots are in case there's ever a need to invoke the "in-lieu" lot provision of your permit. My experience is some counties have incorporated these maps into the county's GIS system for property tax or emergency service purposes, but many have not.  The USFS is the official source of the tract maps.  The example above is very typical of what a USFS tract map looks like.  Many have not been updated since the original survey.....80+ years ago!
by D. Gann
Sunday, November 24, 2019
no trespassing sign 4 R. Paradies To add to the dialog above, the Forest Service frowns upon any signage which attempts to restrict general public access to National Forest lands, including our lots.  Since the cabin is your private property, you can post a sign identifying your cabin as "private property" and you may also be allowed to say something like "no public access allowed" or "keep off" or "no trespassing" if the sign is clear that it applies to your private improvements, but not the lot.
by D. Gann
Sunday, November 24, 2019
Camping by the public on our lots 7 J. Primrose Responding to a couple of posts above.  Regarding Ian's question above, to my knowledge there is no national or regional policy regarding the specific distance disperse camping is allowed from a developed site. Each Forest has a certain amount of leeway to establish guidelines or rules for such things. I've seen documents or flyers generated by different Forests similar to the one posted by Desiree above to inform the general public regarding acceptable practices for dispersed camping.  Responding to D. Giebelhausen's post, if the bridge is private property of the cabin owners, I believe you could place a "private property" sign on the bridge, but not so sure you could place a "no trespassing" sign.  As a general rule, the Forest Service frowns upon signs which appear to restrict access to forest lands by the general public. Lockable gates are generally authorized to reduce automoble traffic for security purposes, which is probably the best way to prevent or reduce traffic on your bridge, but doesn't prevent the general public from walking across the bridge.
by D. Gann
Sunday, November 24, 2019
Library 2 W. Schrader The USFS also has an online library with thousands of digital archives. Not sure if you will find what you’re looking for, but here’s the link - https://www.fs.fed.us/library/.Dave
by D. Condit
Tuesday, November 19, 2019
Cabin Incidental Rental 2 M. Norder Yes it does, thanks for the information.
by M. Norder
Thursday, October 10, 2019
Why form a local tract association? 6 K. Shea Thanks so much for sending examples. This will help us immensely!
by M. Norder
Monday, September 16, 2019
Tax on Sale of cabin 2 T. Blaesing Thanks so much. This is very helpful
by T. Blaesing
Sunday, September 15, 2019
How to get a Sign identifying our Tract 3 L. Eckman By all means, we encourage sharing information from this website with other cabin owners.
by D. Gann
Saturday, August 10, 2019
Security Gate - maintenance and access 6 C. Randall My cabin is in Oregon. We also have security gates and have been told that the roads are our responsibility for the same reason noted above. We have not had major issues with the roads but keep a gravel pile within the tract and ask cabin owners to fill pot holes as they occur. Our winters are relatively mild, with snow blocking access to all but high-clearance, 4-wheel drive vehicles, only a few times since I've owned my cabin. I find it hard enough to get the Forest Service to maintain the main access road (fill pot holes/paint lines), which serves our cabin tract, three Forest Service campgrounds, and another special-uses facility, never mind the roads within the tract.
by R. Dwyer
Tuesday, July 16, 2019
Shared Water Systems with Forest Service - Need Info 1 D. La Maggiore On the Cleveland NF we have asked the FS if we could connect the small 7-cabin Shrine Tract to the USFS water system in the adjacent Laguna Campground . Despite given an example of a shared water system in the Inyo NF, the proposal was rejected by the District Ranger because the Laguna water system was designed for sharing and the administrative burden to administer the water service.To the DR's credit, he is entertaining an alternative proposal to allow the MLIA cabin tract water system organization to share a new waterline trench in the upcoming campground renovation project and allow the MLIA to run a pipeline from the nearby Laguna Tract to the Shrine Tract.
by F. Kalinoski
Tuesday, July 16, 2019