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Read Me Instructions and FAQ Locked Topic 0 M. Randall Forum Etiquette This NFH Community Forum (Ask the Community) is a friendly place for discourse about the recreation residence program.  Our forum is a place to ask questions, provide information, and exchange ideas in a spirit of friendship. We know there will be disagreements on certain topics, but we ask that you disagree respectfully so that this forum remains a place where camaraderie between cabin owners is first and foremost. Quick Start Sign in to the NFH Website Click on the Ask the Community link on the home page. Equivalently click on menu option Resources → Ask the Community or Get Involved → Ask the Community. View recent topics posts and replies or use the search for a topic of interest Click New Topic to create a new post. When positioned on an existing topic, click Quick Reply (or alternatively Full Editor) to join the conversation on that topic.   Frequently Asked Questions How do I sign-in to the NFH Website? Only NFH members may sign in on the NFH website. Use the menu pick in the upper right or the box on the left rail of the home page.   There is a Forgot Your Password button and a Need Help button at the bottom of the left rail for more assistance. How do I pose a topic? Click on above the grid of existing topics. On the Subject line be detailed enough for someone searching to anticipate the content. For example ‘Permit language regarding restricted access’ is much more informative than ‘Permit language’ How do I add a Reply? Below each post is a Quick Reply text box. Remember to click on thebutton. What is the difference between Quick Reply and Reply Using Full Editor? The Quick Reply only allows plain text. The Full Editor has a Subject text, Attach Video field, and full font and style attributes along with an Insert tab for tables and links. Below the text area, there is a drag-n-drop or upload area for attaching files and images. Warning: If you start with the Quick Reply and decide to switch to the Advanced Editor, text already entered is lost so do a copy of the Quick Reply text to then paste it in the Full Editor box. How do I return to the main Community Forum page? After viewing a Topic post or replies, click on ‘General Questions/Discussion’ in the Forum Index bar below the NFH website menu bar.   How can I “subscribe” to the NFH Community Forum? Members can “subscribe” to the entire Ask the Community Forum, or an individual Topic using the Forum Actions at the top of the Forum (or Topic).  There are two types of notice subscriptions. Subscribe to either or both.     1)      Instant Update:  Member receives an email every time a new Topic or Reply is made to the Forum (or Topic).   2)      Digest:  Member receives a weekly email which provides a list new Topics/Replies for that Forum entered since the last distribution of the Digest.   Is the information accurate? The NFH Community Forum is provided to members as a medium to share knowledge and experience. NFH staff and designated volunteer subject matter experts will review the forum and clarify and elaborate content for accuracy using an Editor’s Note. Who can access the NFH Community Forum? All visitors to the NFH website can see the General Questions/Discussion Community Forum page. Only members who have signed in to the site can post. If I post or reply how am I identified online? You are identified with your profile picture and your first initial and last name. There is no visibility to other profile information. You may choose not to set a profile picture and some members use a picture of their cabin. Why do Topics have different icons? Announcements  always sort to the top of the posts, are created by a moderator and locked so only moderators can reply. This Read Me Guide is an example of an Announcement. Sticky always sort immediately below any Announcements and above any regular topics. Regular Topics display below any Announcements and Sticky and can be sorted by most recent activity date. Scroll down to see all the posts or click on the next and previous page arrows. What should not be a Topic on the NFH Community Forum? If you have a personal matter regarding your membership or specifics about your cabin that you do not want to share with the cabin community then use the Help or Contact Us.
by M. Randall
Friday, May 3, 2019
Cleveland National Forest Management Plan link 3 T. Bier This is great - thanks for making it sticky! - Sharon Leach
by S. Leach
Monday, May 20, 2019
Why form a local tract association? 1 K. Shea The Stahlman Summer Home tract, located in the Willamette National Forest in Oregon, has been organized since 1958. We are registered with the state as a mutual benefit corporation with a board comprised of four officers and nine directors. Depending on the size of your tract and the facilities the cabin owners are responsible for, it may be wise to organize. Our association owns a private water system, two security gates, and a foot bridge connecting two parts of our tract. We have also been responsible for the roads within the tract since the security gates were installed. As such, we need to have the resources to maintain these assets. Having a strong organizational structure allows us to collect dues, make the necessary expenditures, and recruit the volunteers needed to do the work. We have committees for the water system, maintenance, gates, & member services. Each committee has a chair and 4 - 6 committee members. While the initial effort to organize may seem daunting, I believe you will find it beneficial in the long term.
by R. Dwyer
Tuesday, July 16, 2019
Security Gate - maintenance and access 6 C. Randall My cabin is in Oregon. We also have security gates and have been told that the roads are our responsibility for the same reason noted above. We have not had major issues with the roads but keep a gravel pile within the tract and ask cabin owners to fill pot holes as they occur. Our winters are relatively mild, with snow blocking access to all but high-clearance, 4-wheel drive vehicles, only a few times since I've owned my cabin. I find it hard enough to get the Forest Service to maintain the main access road (fill pot holes/paint lines), which serves our cabin tract, three Forest Service campgrounds, and another special-uses facility, never mind the roads within the tract.
by R. Dwyer
Tuesday, July 16, 2019
Shared Water Systems with Forest Service - Need Info 1 D. La Maggiore On the Cleveland NF we have asked the FS if we could connect the small 7-cabin Shrine Tract to the USFS water system in the adjacent Laguna Campground . Despite given an example of a shared water system in the Inyo NF, the proposal was rejected by the District Ranger because the Laguna water system was designed for sharing and the administrative burden to administer the water service.To the DR's credit, he is entertaining an alternative proposal to allow the MLIA cabin tract water system organization to share a new waterline trench in the upcoming campground renovation project and allow the MLIA to run a pipeline from the nearby Laguna Tract to the Shrine Tract.
by F. Kalinoski
Tuesday, July 16, 2019
non-renewal of permits 2 R. Dwyer Thanks Sharon. I’ll pass this on.
by R. Dwyer
Monday, July 15, 2019
Library 1 W. Schrader Elizabeth, We have a Recommended Cabin Books list (aka library) on our website that includes some cabin or tract histories written by our members. Look on our Home Page under Resources (or use the link in the prior sentence). Two histories I can think of are A Stroll Up the Canyon by Karen Norton about the Holy Ghost Tract in the Santa Fe National Forest and Star Island: A Summer Community by Carol Ryan. Not all cabin histories are on this list.  Some have been shared with NFH in spiral bound limited runs, as well. History of tracts is very interesting to all of us.  Thanks  for getting in touch, Sharon Leach, NFH Executive Director
by S. Leach
Monday, July 15, 2019
Road Maintenance Agreements with the FS 1 T. Kish Pam -Would it be possible to send a copy of the Road Maintenance Agreement?We in Arizona have an issue with a collapsed culvert. We are working with the USFS to get it repared, but there has been discussion on what such an agreement might contain.You can email me at osman_beyazpasha at hotmail dot comThanks in advance -Chuck HuberSoldiers Camp, Coronado National Forest, AZ
by C. Huber
Thursday, July 11, 2019
Cabin Tract Self Inspections - Has FS asked anyone else to do this? 3 D. La Maggiore Apart from Roy's great example and the questionnaire mentioned by Doug, I don't currently know of other tracts or cabin groups that perform self-inspections. But the topic has been raised at NFH. Particularly with regard to historic cabins. Where the USFS has not been able to complete historic assessments in some forests, local tract associations have banded as a community and hired an approved outside historic consultant. That's a step toward self-management. When Mike Kaczor, former lead in the Heritage Department of the USFS Washington Office, was on our NFH Board, we talked about whether some historic districts might be able to self-manage through the local tract association. While having this authority/responsibility might put pressure on your association and thus suggest a bit more in the way of incorporation and insurance coverage, there are advantages to developing this kind of public-private partnership in the right circumstances. If and when we speak with further leaders of cabin associations who have been given this opportunity, we'll ask them more about their self-management experiences. Glad to hear it was enjoyable and informative for Roy's tract.  - Sharon Leach, NFH Executive Director
by S. Leach
Thursday, July 11, 2019
Are maps of tracts available? 1 J. Mcloskey There are three sources I use to find tract maps:1. Your tract association records - if your cabin group has an association, ask your tract association leaders if anyone in the group might have a copy.2. The county assessors website - a lot of counties have put their data online; I’ve had fairly good luck finding tract maps, or at least outlines of parcels, online. Occasionally, a county will have digitized the pages of the plat maps and you can find them that way. 3. The assessor's office - if your county’s records are not digitized, you can go check with the assessor’s office to get a copy of the plat map for your area.Occasionally, I luck out and find them by doing a google search. And, very likely, your forest service district office has a copy.
by D. La Maggiore
Thursday, July 11, 2019
Permit Limitations on Cabin Square Footage 4 S. Karr The square footage limits and how they are to be measured is set in the Special Uses Handbook Supplement for those regions that have adopted Supplements -- presently that includes Regions 4, 5 and 6, which are the Intermountain, Pacific Southwest and Pacific Northwest Regions, respectively. These Supplements provide important detail regarding the building, maintenance and use of Recreation Residence Cabins.The R5 Supplement [Supplement No. 2709.11-2016-2] establishes a maximum floor space of 1,400 square foot, which includes ""...both floors of a two story residence (excluding loft which is defined as an unpartioned open space under a roof) and, where they already exist, authorized guest cabins and garages with living space." The R6 Supplement [2709.11-2012-1] establishes a maximum size for the dwelling of 1,200 square feet measured on the outside of the foundation, plus a loft. The loft size shall not be included in the total square footage and should be two-thirds or less of the ground floor square footage.As has been noted by other respondents, Forests can set smaller square footage limits, but not larger than their reqional regulations.
by R. Glauthier
Monday, July 1, 2019
Historic District - pros and cons 1 M. Randall I think it's wonderful that you are considering becoming an historic "district" under the National Register of Historic Places designation. A few point to keep in mind: Not all the cabins in the tract or vicinity need to be included. Some may opt out, and that is fine. There is always strength in numbers when dealing with the Forest Service or government agencies, such as the county. And yes such a designation would inhibit the FS from removing or reducing structures. I strongly urge you to contact your State Historical Preservation Office (SHPO) for advice on how to proceed and ask them to recommend a consultant with experience in Historic districts for you to work with..
by J. Van Dyk
Tuesday, May 21, 2019
Sheds 1 T. Bier Cabin construction guidelines vary by USFS Region. In the Pacific NW Region (6) where my cabin is located, one storage/woodshed is allowed up to 130 sq ft. In Region 5, the size appears to be limited to 40 sq ft. with possibly a little wiggle room at the discretion of the authorized officer. The following are the Pacific SW Region (5) guidelines for a shed: "Outbuildings. Before authorizing outbuildings, the authorized officer shall consider the following guidelines: Separate structures such as storage sheds, generators, pump houses, and outhouses may be authorized if they cannot be logically incorporated into the main residence. Separate structures shall not exceed a combined total of 40 square feet. The authorized officer has discretion to make limited exceptions if there are no resource concerns, the improvements or structures cannot be logically incorporated into the main structure and the additional improvement, structure, or square footage is necessary to the function of the cabin. The authorized officer should document the rationale used to support the exception. All separate structures must be constructed of materials and colors to blend with the cabin and other outbuildings."
by D. Gann
Saturday, May 18, 2019
Sibling Membership Options 1 K. Shea Thank you for contacting NFH. Regarding membership, you have several choices. First, NFH allows for multiple memberships per cabin, so your siblings could become Regular ($50) or Associate ($30) members through your member tract organization. We have introduced some new options for 2019, one of which is called a "Cabin" dues option which includes 1 Regular + up to 4 Associate Memberships for the discounted price of $100. This assumes your local association is willing to make all of the NFH options available to their members. Every organization has its own method for collecting fees & dues and while most offer all of the options available from NFH, some choose to limit their dues collection to a single Regular membership per cabin. I suggest you discuss with your Secretary/Treasurer. Individual Regular and Associate memberships are also available directly from NFH, but at a slightly higher cost.
by M. Knox
Friday, May 17, 2019
What do NFH Membership fees cover? 1 C. Randall NFH is a member-based/driven organization run by a volunteer board of directors (cabin owners), with 2 1/3 paid employees, and an outside Washington Representative (lobbyist) and Legal Counsel who advocate for the preservation of the cabin program on behalf of all cabin owners. Our primary funding is annual dues paid by cabin owners. We also receive donations from cabin owners. Our annual budget runs a little over $250,000 per year and our balance sheet is typically 75-100% of our annual budget. NFH provides information and education to our members, works with USFS staff from the regional offices to headquarters, and works to solve problems which threaten the cabin program.
by M. Knox
Sunday, May 5, 2019
Conference Session Materials 2 C. Randall We are related. Son and mother. The San Diego Conference materials will be posted on the website about a week after the conference.
by M. Randall
Sunday, May 5, 2019
Insurance quote? 2 D. Hansen This is a great service that the NFH offers. The insurance agency that covered our cabin under the previous owner, wouldn’t continue to cover it when we bought the place.
by T. Bier
Saturday, May 4, 2019
Retention of Cabin Fees by the Forest Service 2 S. Karr Yes! Miriam Mazel, of USFS, this morning said it will go to them and they already have rec groups circling. But she did say they will likely hire staff to help with the re-permitting process in 2028.
by T. Bier
Saturday, May 4, 2019
Multiple Cabin Ownership 3 K. Shea And just to be super precise if others are reading this thread, multiple people can own a cabin, but currently the permit can only be in the name of an individual, married couple, or single asset trust.
by T. Bier
Saturday, May 4, 2019
Transfer Fee: Death of Permit Holder 1 D. Hansen The transfer fee is a flat $1,200 indexed to inflation. The Forest Service charges a transfer fee when a new permit is requested due to a change of cabin ownership.  In the situation you describe, the ownership changed to the heir so the permit will need to be reissued in the new owner's name. This will trigger the transfer fee. Click here to go to Resources --> Permit Fees page for more information.
by D. Gann
Thursday, April 25, 2019