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Read Me Instructions and FAQ Locked Topic 0 M. Randall Forum Etiquette This NFH Community Forum (Ask the Community) is a friendly place for discourse about the recreation residence program.  Our forum is a place to ask questions, provide information, and exchange ideas in a spirit of friendship. We know there will be disagreements on certain topics, but we ask that you disagree respectfully so that this forum remains a place where camaraderie between cabin owners is first and foremost. Quick Start Sign in to the NFH Website Click on the Ask the Community link on the home page. Equivalently click on menu option Resources → Ask the Community or Get Involved → Ask the Community. View recent topics posts and replies or use the search for a topic of interest Click New Topic to create a new post. When positioned on an existing topic, click Quick Reply (or alternatively Full Editor) to join the conversation on that topic.   Frequently Asked Questions How do I sign-in to the NFH Website? Only NFH members may sign in on the NFH website. Use the menu pick in the upper right or the box on the left rail of the home page.   There is a Forgot Your Password button and a Need Help button at the bottom of the left rail for more assistance. How do I pose a topic? Click on above the grid of existing topics. On the Subject line be detailed enough for someone searching to anticipate the content. For example ‘Permit language regarding restricted access’ is much more informative than ‘Permit language’ How do I add a Reply? Below each post is a Quick Reply text box. Remember to click on thebutton. What is the difference between Quick Reply and Reply Using Full Editor? The Quick Reply only allows plain text. The Full Editor has a Subject text, Attach Video field, and full font and style attributes along with an Insert tab for tables and links. Below the text area, there is a drag-n-drop or upload area for attaching files and images. Warning: If you start with the Quick Reply and decide to switch to the Advanced Editor, text already entered is lost so do a copy of the Quick Reply text to then paste it in the Full Editor box. How do I return to the main Community Forum page? After viewing a Topic post or replies, click on ‘General Questions/Discussion’ in the Forum Index bar below the NFH website menu bar.   How can I “subscribe” to the NFH Community Forum? Members can “subscribe” to the entire Ask the Community Forum, or an individual Topic using the Forum Actions at the top of the Forum (or Topic).  There are two types of notice subscriptions. Subscribe to either or both.     1)      Instant Update:  Member receives an email every time a new Topic or Reply is made to the Forum (or Topic).   2)      Digest:  Member receives a weekly email which provides a list new Topics/Replies for that Forum entered since the last distribution of the Digest.   Is the information accurate? The NFH Community Forum is provided to members as a medium to share knowledge and experience. NFH staff and designated volunteer subject matter experts will review the forum and clarify and elaborate content for accuracy using an Editor’s Note. Who can access the NFH Community Forum? All visitors to the NFH website can see the General Questions/Discussion Community Forum page. Only members who have signed in to the site can post. If I post or reply how am I identified online? You are identified with your profile picture and your first initial and last name. There is no visibility to other profile information. You may choose not to set a profile picture and some members use a picture of their cabin. Why do Topics have different icons? Announcements  always sort to the top of the posts, are created by a moderator and locked so only moderators can reply. This Read Me Guide is an example of an Announcement. Sticky always sort immediately below any Announcements and above any regular topics. Regular Topics display below any Announcements and Sticky and can be sorted by most recent activity date. Scroll down to see all the posts or click on the next and previous page arrows. What should not be a Topic on the NFH Community Forum? If you have a personal matter regarding your membership or specifics about your cabin that you do not want to share with the cabin community then use the Help or Contact Us.
by M. Randall
Friday, May 3, 2019
Restrictions on Access to the Cabin? 1 S. Leach Hi Ms. Leach--My brother and I each are cabin permittees in the Stanislaus National Forest. We normally have access to our cabins only from late April to late October each year, as the road to the cabin tract is closed the rest of the time. We were advised by the Forest Service not to go to the cabins this year due to the spread of the coronavirus and respect for the local community and its rules. We ultimately opened our cabins in early June, about 6 weeks later than normal (losing 23% of our usual time in the mountains.). We plan to ask for a fee adjustment and would like your advice about whether it is better to do that now or wait until the end of the cabin season. Thank you for any guidance you're able to provide. Sincerely, Cynthia Denenholz
by C. Denenholz
Thursday, August 6, 2020
What are the COVID-19 Guidelines from the USFS? 1 S. Leach Recreation residence tracts are generally not considered developed recreation sites, however guidance may vary by Forest. The following description was included in a public notice recently issued by the USFS Pacific SW Region: “Developed recreation sites” refers to designated recreational use areas designed to facilitate public use. Information on individual recreation sites and opportunities are available from local National Forests. Note the emphasis on public use. Examples of developed recreation sites may include campgrounds, visitor centers, sno-parks, day use areas, USFS owned rental cabins, trail heads (although many trail systems remain open), and other recreation sites that tend to attract large numbers of public users.
by D. Gann
Friday, April 3, 2020
Safe to go to cabins? 8 D. La Maggiore Thanks, K.
by I. McClure
Friday, April 3, 2020
Advice for Gravity Fed Water System? 1 K. Mathews Kaye,I am a bit confused about your description of your water "system" and the geography. The water source is higher than the cabin across a gulch with a county road in between? Water does not run up hill unless it is pushed from a higher elevation. You can calculate water pressure by the elevation drop - 2.3 psi per foot elevation change. I would put the cabin reservoir as high as possible to generate the most water pressure. On a stand might work better because water weighs 7.8 pounds per gallon. 30 gallons is 234 pounds. Maybe you can talk to the county about fixing the pipe ends so you do not have to you a hose reel.
by F. Kalinoski
Thursday, August 13, 2020
Property taxes 4 G. Gardner Cabins in Oregon are exempt from possessory Interest tax per OAR 150-307-0230.
by R. Dwyer
Tuesday, August 11, 2020
2025 Fee Retention - Where Should Special Use Permit Fees be Invested? 5 D. La Maggiore We have spoken with our District Ranger about our cabin access "roads". He says the best way is to have them permitted with the appropriate maintenance and repair guidelines. This will take time and money for NEPA. The CFA monies could help towards this end. Forest fuels reduction is also important. Trail maintenance would be helpful since many cabins spend much time hiking in the forest.
by F. Kalinoski
Tuesday, August 11, 2020
Architect for Cabin in Inyo County 1 M. Baker Hi Mark,A friend who is building a house suggested her architect.mike@brittonarchitecture.com
by M. Faucheux
Saturday, August 1, 2020
politics of land use 2 C. Breed Hey I'd sure like to connect with you, as I am also in the Fallen Leaf community and there are some of us who have already been meeting across tracts and recently joined for a Zoom meeting with the USFS lead engineer / trail designer on these trails. After studying the approved 2013 Lake Tahoe Basin Management Unit Access and Trail Management Plan (ATM), I found several inconsistencies and issues that we raised with our USFS person. Please let me know where to email some information you might find useful, and how to bring you into this discussion. This is definitely a very hot topic on Fallen Leaf Lake.
by P. Laughlin
Thursday, July 30, 2020
Disagreement with FS Ranger on Road Repairs and need help 3 J. Conroy You might want to check with the county and the Forest Service. Apache County has a map of their road system online. Additionally, it looks like they recently set policy for N Roads (https://www.co.apache.az.us/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Adoption-of-an-N-Road-to-an-Adopted-County-Maintained-Road-approved-02-04-2020.pdf). Does your association hold a FS special use permit for the road? If yes, and the land use has changed since the permit was issued, it seems you should be able to go back to them with a case for why your association shouldn't be solely responsible for its maintenance - I'd start with checking the permit language. If your cabin group wasn't issued a special use permit for the road, and land use has changed, you might try getting in contact with the FS roads management team. It looks like they recently completed a motorized travel plan last fall. They may be able to provide guidance as far as options.
by D. La Maggiore
Wednesday, July 29, 2020
non-renewal of permits 7 R. Dwyer Thanks Doug.
by D. Merrick
Wednesday, July 29, 2020
Cabin Insurance Program - Non-Renewal 5 R. Rush Our Cabin Insurance Program with Assurance Risk Managers continues to write policies and provide quotes. While ARM was looking for a replacement package for those who were non-renewed, we recognize that some of our members were left waiting to hear more. By now, all who were facing non-renewal should have heard from ARM.Currently, we are not seeking to create a new program with another insurer. What is happening within the program is a result of the larger insurance marketplace, which is going through big adjustments. While options may be reduced currently, in terms of quoting new or replacement policies, we have been assured that ARM is able to find and offer options to those who apply. We hope to see improvement in the months to come, in terms of efficiency and competitive options, but it will take time.
by S. Leach
Monday, July 20, 2020
Keeping the peace while scheduling and calendaring cabin times 4 S. Browning Jay - Your cabin looks terrific! Thanks for sharing the website with us! Kaye Mathews - Hefferman Gulch Tract - CO
by K. Mathews
Friday, July 10, 2020
Cerro Grande Fire 1 C. Conner-Coash NFH is not aware of any USFS cabins lost in the Cerro Grande Fire in May 2000.  We've made an effort to record loss of cabins over the years with reasons for the loss. Our records do not reflect any cabins lost to fire in NM in 2000, but our record keeping isn't perfect and that event was 20 years ago. From the limited research I did on the fire, you are correct the fire started as a controlled burn in the Bandelier National Monument and got out of control. The controlled burn was a US Park Service project (not USFS). After the fire got out of control, the Forest Service was called in to assist with fighting the fire.  The post-fire investigation included a number of criticisms regarding the management of the fire including timing (spring rather than fall), inadequate Park Service manpower, and delay of Forest Service response due to lack of inter-agency coordination. A number of private structures were destroyed by fire, but most were homes on private land on the outskirts of Los Alamos, NM. FEMA was called in to provide temporary housing for those with homes lost to the fire and it appears the US Federal government did reimburse homeowners and/or insurance companies to replace homes lost to the fire (through Congressional action). As you point out, our special use permits contain a risk of loss clause that specifies the permit holder assumes all risk of loss of their cabin, regardless of the circumstances. We are aware of another incident where a group of permit holders (not cabin permits) litigated over the loss of private structures from a forest fire, allegedly caused by a BLM employee. The courts ruled in favor of the Federal government citing the risk of loss clause in the special use permit. The court did not rule on whether the fire was the fault of the agency. The court opinion simply stated the risk of loss clause protected the US Federal government from any loss liability and that this protection spanned all agencies of the Federal government, not just the agency that issued the permit.
by D. Gann
Monday, June 8, 2020
Roof Replacement 6 E. McGrew Hi Elise, I had a chance to swing by your tract while at the Bend conference - sweet location and I probably have a picture of you cabin! Send me and email with your contact information and I will see if we can get you connected with some of the other tracts in the Willamette NF - desiree.lamaggiore@nationalforesthomeowners.org
by D. La Maggiore
Friday, May 22, 2020
Current Status of Stanislaus Forest 1 S. Curran Thanks for letting us know. We have heard that some gates may not be opened up yet. In California, it appears that some forests are working closely with state and county authorities. Keep in mind that if any particular forest or district is restricting use, you should be eligible for requesting fee relief in proportion to your reduced use. Whether it is the state or the Forest Service setting the rules that led to your "impaired" use, your district staff will have guidelines for providing fee reduction due to what is termed "impaired use." What we understood from both the Washington Office and the Regional office was that the permits would not be restricted and use of your cabin would be a decision made individually based on your situation and state guidelines. In cases where there is closure and permit holders are not allowed use under their permit terms, you can request the above fee reduction for consideration from your Forest.We'll post as we learn more, too. Thanks again for that local/regional insight. Hope they open up the gates soon.
by S. Leach
Thursday, May 14, 2020
Question on Multiple Lots 1 T. Price Tim, It appears the annual fee for your permit is the same as the fee for lot A of your tract, which suggests the Forest Service assigned a single fee for your permit as one logical lot.  Also, your annual fee is within a range of fees for other similar lots in the same Forest which also suggests the permit fee is not based on multiple lots. I'll contact you directly to provide some additional information regarding how permit fees are determined. Doug Gann NFH President
by D. Gann
Tuesday, April 28, 2020
Water System permit renewal - Delays even by USFS standards! 3 D. Vangsness DaveThe Mount Laguna Improvement Association water system which serves 175 cabins in the Descanso District on the Cleveland NF expired in 2011. We did ask for it renewal but have seen little progress. A SOPA was initiated by the FS that encompasses 3 other water systems in the district and its decision was signed in 2018. Fortunately we have not been billed for the expired permit since 2016. Who knows where the process is hung up at. I get tired of asking.Frank KalinoskiPresident MLIA
by F. Kalinoski
Wednesday, April 1, 2020
Preventing Forest Fires in Our Summer Home Group 3 K. Mathews Thank you for your quick response and the resource recommendations for our Colorado forests, Desiree. I appreciate the information and will pass it along to our Colorado tracts.
by K. Mathews
Tuesday, March 24, 2020
Road Maintenance Agreements with the FS 4 T. Kish We finally have an answer. The Forest Service won't require anyone to contribute to road maintenance, because 6 years ago we 12 cabin-owners decided NOT to form a legal association. It seemed too threatening a project. As a result, the road agreement contract was signed by one representative cabin-owner only, not the legal representative of an association. The association would have given the FS the teeth to compel permittees to cooperate financially, the FS road engineer tells us.Next step: the FS says funding for road crews is dwindling and we should anticipate paying for materials and for labor to apply materials in the near future. We're going to revisit whether we want to form an association. And if we stay informal, at least we'll adopt a policy of the treasurer notifying all 12 owners of who has paid and who has failed to pay into annual assessments.
by C. Breed
Thursday, February 6, 2020