ByLaws and enforcement

Sun, 12 Mar 2023 18:23:37 GMT

Regarding ByLaws and Enforcement.

I am a new member, 7 years and now President of our Association.

I need some help understanding ByLaws. I understand years ago the Forest Service required all Associations to adopt ByLaws. Just last year finally was able to get a copy from an older member, I have never seen copy before.

Reason... we have one member 10 years in arrears. I want to understand collection activity without destroying relationship with other members.

I talking with a collection attorney we need a "stamped/approved" copy of the ByLaws. All I have is copy of the document. They say without stamped copy collection activity may be void.

Many want to turn water off and send member to collections...I am interested if turning water off is legal, and repercussions from member and Forest Service. Also want to make sure the "juice is worth the squeeze" and we don't end up worse than we are now.

Does anyone know who or where I could find a copy of the approved/stamped ByLaws from the Forest Service. If it doesn't exist at this point should be be submitted or what suggestions do you use to better formalize with Association going forward?

Does the NFH have a house attorney our Association could hire/use to help validate ByLaws and collect or at least send legal letter to member in default?

Reply

Sun, 12 Mar 2023 22:00:34 GMT

Russell,

It's very unlikely the Forest Service would impose bylaw or policy requirements for local cabin associations. More likely, Bylaws are required to establish and maintain an association corporation, which is regulated by state law. In most states, an annual filing (report) is required to maintain the legal status of the cabin association corporation and your ability to enforce any bylaws or policies. I recommend checking with the Secretary of State's office for your state to locate any information they have for your association corporation. If your association is not incorporated, or the corporation status has lapsed, you may not have sufficient legal recourse available until you re-establish a corporation with the necessary articles of incorporation and bylaws. In my state (Washington), this is a pretty simple and inexpensive process. Our local cabin association was incorporated about 12 years ago for a $50 fee and we are required to file an annual report form once a year. I think the annual fee is something like $35/yr to maintain our corporate status.

Doug Gann
NFH Immediate Past President
dgann7@gmail.com

Fri, 24 Mar 2023 15:22:40 GMT

Contact a local attorney familiar with association relationships. To have "bylaws" you would have to have some sort of written agreement signed by all of the original participants. Here, we use a standard HUD type agreement that clarifies how everything is to be handled. We use amendments when someone buys one of the cabins. You can find a sample on HUD's web pages.

If all you had was a verbal agreement and you turn someone off THEIR attorney will eat you alive. "Bylaws" would come with some formal association, corporation, etc. which should be easily findable. If you don't have one, or can't find the original, start all over.

Nationally, water wells are regulated in three types 1 to 4 on a well are considered "private, and have few regulations, 5 to 14 on a well require a small water company corporation and are regulated by the State through local Counties, 15 and above are full-on water companies (corporations), with very severe monitoring.

NHF should have an advisory write-up for this situation.

Fri, 24 Mar 2023 20:12:35 GMT

Thank you for the help and response. I will do a search for for a good local attorney and get ours set up again.

Sat, 25 Mar 2023 16:12:52 GMT

I am going to give you some sections that apply to you... It is a lot of reading but...

Just below I have snipped some information from some communications that I think apply to your situation. The first group is from California rules - but, understand that all States are similar:

Nationwide, both on a federal and State level, there are very specific rules for the administration of wells and well systems. HUD has a very good explanation of the separate situations; “individual,” “shared”, and “community” along with the rules that apply for each category.
Here is the link to the HUD explanation - https://archives.hud.gov/offices/hsg/sfh/ref/sfh1-21c.cfm.

We had elected to use the “shared well” rules which covered up to four residential units on a well. Five or more units on a well would require MUCH more administration, and a severe cost increase. Up to “four-on-a-well” is commonly used nationwide.

Here is a link from the State of California defining the differences in an easy-to-read chart https://www.waterboards.ca.gov/drinking_water/certlic/drinkingwater/docs/class_dec_tree.pdf

In the design of our HUD style “shared well agreement” we used the following HUD guidelines - https://www.hud.gov/sites/documents/41501C12HSGH.PDF

We also looked carefully at community type water systems, and decided against using one. https://www.waterboards.ca.gov/drinking_water/certlic/drinkingwater/documents/publicwatersystems/PWS_Definitions.pdf

A question had come up about the original application for a Special Use Permit for our well - so we referred back to the actual Forest rules that applied on our original application. They are just below:

We have included the entire SUA application “Scope” section, just below, with the pertinent sub-section highlighted in yellow. Why? Because this “Scope” section clearly delineates when, and what for, a Special Use Authorization is required. More importantly, for our purposes, it delineates when a Special Use Authorization is NOT REQUIRED (waived).

The link - https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-36/chapter-II/part-251/subpart-B/section-251.50
§ 251.50 Scope.
(a) All uses of National Forest System lands, improvements, and resources, except those authorized by the regulations governing sharing use of roads (§ 212.9); grazing and livestock use (part 222); the sale and disposal of timber and special forest products, such as greens, mushrooms, and medicinal plants (part 223); and minerals (part 228) are designated “special uses.” Before conducting a special use, individuals or entities must submit a proposal to the authorized officer and must obtain a special use authorization from the authorized officer, unless that requirement is waived by paragraphs (c) through (e)(3) of this section.
(b) Nothing in this section prohibits the temporary occupancy of National Forest System lands without a special use authorization when necessary for the protection of life and property in emergencies, if a special use authorization is applied for and obtained at the earliest opportunity, unless waived pursuant to paragraphs (c) through (e)(3) of this section. The authorized officer may, pursuant to § 251.56 of this subpart, impose in that authorization such terms and conditions as are deemed necessary or appropriate and may require changes to the temporary occupancy to conform to those terms and conditions. Those temporarily occupying National Forest System lands without a special use authorization assume liability, and must indemnify the United States, for all injury, loss, or damage arising in connection with the temporary occupancy.

(c) A special use authorization is not required for noncommercial recreational activities, such as camping, picnicking, hiking, fishing, boating, hunting, and horseback riding, or for noncommercial activities involving the expression of views, such as assemblies, meetings, demonstrations, and parades, unless:
(1) The proposed use is a noncommercial group use as defined in § 251.51 of this subpart;
(2) The proposed use is still photography as defined in § 251.51 of this subpart; or
(3) Authorization of that use is required by an order issued under § 261.50 or by a regulation issued under § 261.70 of this chapter.
(d) Travel on any National Forest System road shall comply with all Federal and State laws governing the road to be used and does not require a special use authorization, unless:
(1) The travel is for the purpose of engaging in a noncommercial group use, outfitting or guiding, a recreation event, commercial filming, or still photography, as defined in § 251.51 of this subpart, or for a landowner's ingress or egress across National Forest System lands that requires travel on a National Forest System road that is not authorized for general public use under § 251.110(d) of this part; or
(2) Authorization of that use is required by an order issued under § 261.50 or by a regulation issued under § 261.70 of this chapter.
(e) For proposed uses other than a noncommercial group use (75 or more people), a special use authorization is not required if, based upon review of a proposal, the authorized officer determines that the proposed use has one or more of the following characteristics:
(1) The proposed use will have such nominal effects on National Forest System lands, resources, or programs that it is not necessary to establish terms and conditions in a special use authorization to protect National Forest System lands and resources or to avoid conflict with National Forest System programs or operations;
(2) The proposed use is regulated by a State agency or another Federal agency in a manner that is adequate to protect National Forest System lands and resources and to avoid conflict with National Forest System programs or operations; or
(3) The proposed use is not situated in a congressionally designated wilderness area, and is a routine operation or maintenance activity within the scope of a statutory right-of-way for a highway pursuant to R.S. 2477 (43 U.S.C. 932, repealed Oct. 21, 1976) or for a ditch or canal pursuant to R.S. 2339 (43 U.S.C. 661, as amended), or the proposed use is a routine operation or maintenance activity within the express scope of a documented linear right-of-way.
[69 FR 41964, July 13, 2004]

Mon, 27 Mar 2023 16:52:12 GMT

OK, I am going to "try" and dig through this information this week. It is not my strength but will get through it.

Do you know if the Forest service "requires" ByLaws for Associations? When I originally asked our special use contact t she had never ever heard of it.

Also, I have read several others from the NFHA website, are you aware of a suggested template that would coordinate with the Forest Service agreement so we are not creating from scratch and it is more compliant with FS guidelines? Then we could add our local adjustments. It would be nice to not start from scratch and have someone who has worked with FS agreements. I will also try to contact other Cabin Associations in our state for additional references..

Mon, 27 Mar 2023 17:56:21 GMT

The trouble is there is NO formal policy in place, so I wouldn't be in a big hurry to complete something. Check out this other NHF link below, and see the problem. Especially read Frank Kalinoski's comments.

https://www.nationalforesthomeowners.org/forums/Posts.aspx?topic=1522541

I think NHF needs to develop a standing water committee to come up with a set of standards for the Forest to use. THEN you can proceed. We just went through a water problem with the Forest. They backed off their original claim, but we still don't have an acceptable policy statement. But there are higher level reasons for that.

If I were you I would make a huge effort to find any old documents, or letters, etc., to verify what you already had in place. It is all solvable.

Mon, 27 Mar 2023 18:39:08 GMT

OK, I did find a copy of the old document . We we can start from with getting bylaws updated and registered with the state
.

Mon, 27 Mar 2023 18:42:48 GMT

OK, I did find a copy of our old document. We we can start from there, make suggestions on updates and get started with process to registered with the state. I have a lead for a local attorney that may be able to help us.

Mon, 27 Mar 2023 18:45:03 GMT